kpreid: (Default)
Kevin Reid ([personal profile] kpreid) wrote2010-04-26 09:32 am
Entry tags:

(no subject)

(Images are public domain from Wikimedia Commons: 1 2)

[identity profile] bitjuggler.livejournal.com 2010-04-26 02:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Just to be pedantic, I think the 2nd one should s/x/r/ to stay with a consistent coordinate system.

[identity profile] kpreid.livejournal.com 2010-04-26 05:25 pm (UTC)(link)
You can't express the position in a polar system consistently, because whenθ isn't constant, r is not with respect to any fixed center. It could be dθ/dt and dr/dt of the velocity, though.

(θ is the angle of both the position and the velocity, but not the acceleration.)

The motion is along the curve of a circle whose center varies with the steering wheel, so what I called d²x/dt² could be seen as the tangential velocity, but then we'd have to call the steering wheel θ/x.

I've changed it to d²v/dt² to just duck the question of which direction it is.

(Then there's the transmission...)

[identity profile] kpreid.livejournal.com 2010-04-27 12:16 am (UTC)(link)
Wait, I'm confused. d²v/dt² is the third derivative of position. I could say dv/dt, but that reduces the point I'm trying to make. So, r. (I asked a physics teacher and he said r...)

[identity profile] dkw.livejournal.com 2010-04-26 02:51 pm (UTC)(link)
Climate control knob: dT/dt.

[identity profile] atheorist.livejournal.com 2010-04-26 09:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Sadly, this is not the case - if you turn the knob to "all hot", and wait, you will never reach the temperature of the sun, and maybe not even boiling.

[identity profile] dkw.livejournal.com 2010-04-26 10:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, if you push the accelerator to the floor, I don't think you'll reach the speed of sound either, much less the speed of light.

[identity profile] atheorist.livejournal.com 2010-04-26 10:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Indeed! I missed the philosophical subtlety of the original poster. I thought that the distinction between intended uses was clear, but now I see it is muddy.

The question becomes: what, philosophically, are you doing when you "floor it"? Are you asking for a terminal speed, or an acceleration? Is the thermal control analogous? Surely I press harder when I feel I am too slow, and let up when I feel I am too fast; that is, I'm behaving as if the gas pedal controlled velocity.

[identity profile] kpreid.livejournal.com 2010-04-27 12:28 am (UTC)(link)
What it actually controls is approximately the power output from the engine, but let's ignore the difference between that and acceleration.

In low d²x/dt² conditions, the gas pedal controls velocity because the system is dominated by opposing forces which increase with velocity (e.g. drag), so it settles to a particular velocity. But for high d²x/dt² (and typically low dx/dt), i.e. stopping and starting, the control is obviously one of acceleration.

All these are ideal approximations; your engine and your tires have limited power and response, and traction. You won't get the results this model suggests if your dx/dt is too high, or your dθ/dt too high for your dx/dt.